Doctor Who 6x13 knee-jerk reaction post

[karenor]

Ok...

In the "Really, Moff? Really?" category:

-THAT'S the question? OKAY. That basically means nothing. And the Master already explained it to us. And if there's something BIGGER about it, I don't care.

-HOW MANY TIME LINES IS AMY SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER? Did he say she's special because she grew up with the crack? Does no one ELSE remember all these alternates? Does Rory? WTF IS REALITY, MOFF??????

-While the fakeout about the name was cute, was there ANY reason for them to get married? That convinced WHO of WHAT now?

-And what are we forgetting now that the Doctor is slinking back into the shadows? Now everyone who knows and loves the Doctor thinks he's dead? Or something? How did the solar flares that aren't help?

-Whatever magical time disintegrating power was making time disintegrate? IT DIDN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A ROBOT AND THE DOCTOR???????????

-Why is River suffering for the billions in the world now?

-So... RIVER KNEW HER FUTURE THE WHOLE TIME?!?!?!?!? How exactly the fuck is that supposed to work? River who has a chat with mum in the garden wasn't even a doctor yet. And okay, so she knew who SHE was, but she also knew about the Doctor's death (which she what, FAKED being surprised and angry by in TIA?) and being in jail for his murder, and... what? WHAT? I give up.


Things that were awesome, if I don't think about them too much:

-Liz I is waiting in a glade to elope with me (I have to change up that fic that I've never finished, it's jossed now), I can help Rose Tyler with her homework, I can attend all of Jacks stag nights. HAH! And awww.

-Amy's office (and the drawings which I feel were a decent throw back to John Smith's dreams, that were bits of himself leaking through. Though that's come up before, right? Her drawings? I don't remember).

-Amy killing Eyepatch Lady, and saying River didn't get it all from her.

-River talking about their rumors (because THAT's a decent nod to the real world outside the show, the 'wedding,' no not really).

-The time mashup itself. Balloons carrying cars! :)


Things that are the best:

-RORY.

Comments

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

Yeah the wedding doesn't make sense really - WHY was it necessary. I liked it anyway because I ship Eleven/River but that doesn't mean it really makes sense. Still it gave us Amy's WTF the Doctor is my son in law line/expression so I am willing to forgive it for now. Maybe it's one of those things that will make more sense in hindsight? IDK

I think maybe it's the fact that Doctor is still there inside the robot that makes the time freeze thing still work?

LOVED the references to Rose and Jack! Those were awesome!

Rory is amazing! I ♥ him

LOVE the balloons!

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I was thinking that the Doctor needed to get close enough to whisper in River's ear? But he didn't have to marry her to do that, probably.

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

Well yeah exactly. That's the only reason I could think of also, but there are other ways he could have done it. I guess he just wanted to? IDK...

Part 1

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to work through something here, slowly and painfully, and I don't know if I'm going to make sense, but: Are you the woman who marries the Doctor or are you the woman who murders the Doctor? That's that people keep asking about River, and, to be honest, it's what *we've* been asking, as fans. It seems to be some sort of symbolic dichotomy there, like: How does River get defined in history?

River doesn't want to be the woman who murders the Doctor. She loves him too much for that, the idea of it is killing her. The Doctor--*this* Doctor--is used to sacrificing for others, he's not selfish with that. Who cares if he's going to die? The *universe* is dying. And River is like, "I don't care about the existential crisis of it, I CANNOT KILL YOU." For a child of the TARDIS, it's an extremely human thing to say, it's one that I'm sure any of us would say. It's the reason my Doctor is so dangerous to the universe. Once you love something more than the universe--the way River loves the Doctor, the way my Doctor loves the kids--then the universe is always in danger. I think of my Doctor in River's shoes, having to kill one of his kids, and can you ever imagine him doing it? Never. He would do what River did, I know he would, he would literally *stop* *time,* so that he would never have to go through with it.

So, that's how much River loves the Doctor. It's how much many, many characters, throughout time and space, have loved the Doctor, really. Rose tore through dimensions for him, after all. And held the Vortex inside of her for him. The Doctor has been loved like this before, and I think it's possible that it has always, somewhere inside, terrified him a little bit. What is it like to love someone that way? In canon, I'm not sure the Doctor has ever gotten there. Rose ends up in a parallel universe, he doesn't tear reality apart to go get her, he takes a step back, he remembers who he is, he is never, in canon, the person willing to *stop* *time* just because he can't bear to hurt *one* life form out of the millions in the universe. He's the one who killed his entire people to save the universe, after all. He had the choice early on with Rose: he could save the universe or lose her. He ended up having it both ways, but I'm not sure he would have chosen Rose. Because he's the Doctor. He knows that he *can't.* He has to be responsible, for everything, always.

And maybe--just maybe--he wonders about that here. Maybe he wonders if his way is better, after all. Yes, he saves the universe, again and again, but maybe there's something beautiful about loving someone enough that you desperately roll the dice for him, that you find a million million voices who also love him and you stop time just to tell him that, just to remind him that he's never been even a little bit alone and he should have known that all along. Maybe, if you are the Doctor, where, despite your farewell tour, you've been preparing yourself to face your death by yourself: maybe, with all these things, you stand on a tower in an alternate universe and feel beloved and feel the risks your murderer is willing to take to tell you that you're beloved. Maybe you realize that maybe some things *are* more important than saving the universe. Maybe one of those things just might be having something you love more than you love the universe.

Part 2

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

I don't think the Doctor loves River that way. After all, what he does next saves the universe. And maybe this was a cold calculation on his part: "I'll give River what she wants and then this can all go away." Or maybe it was a concession to her, a gift he gave her, for what she had so far given to him. Maybe it was an acknowledgment that there can be something good and true in the impulse to love as much as she loves him. Maybe he just wants to say to her, "This was lovely and touching and I will cherish it, what you've shown me today. Thank you." But the natural culmination of a declaration of love like that is a marriage, and so maybe that's what he does. Maybe he has no words for the value of her gesture, so he responds in kind, with a gesture that is difficult to value. She's not the woman who murders the Doctor, she's the woman who marries the Doctor. She's the woman who loved him enough to stop time. And, in the push and pull of their complicated relationship, where the Doctor has frequently been wary of her and wondered who she is, this is his acknowledgment of it, his acceptance of it.

We've had a lot of "Love Saves the Day" plots on this show. This is a plot where love almost ruins everything. But maybe that's just as beautiful. Because it's still love.

Re: Part 2

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

Oooh this whole theory is very fascinating. I really like what you're saying about the way the "love saves the day" thing played out in this as "love almost ruins everything" and it really makes so much sense. River, by trying to stop everything to save him almost destroys the universe and the Doctor must convince her to end it. It's a bit of a recurring theme in the show overall isn't it?

And your comparison to your Doctor loving his family so much it puts the universe in danger is perfect because you're right, if he was faced with having to kill (or even just regenerate) one of his children, or grandchildren he would do exactly what River does here. He would pick his family over the universe. It's maybe one of the reasons we'll probably never really see the Doctor in love or with a family on the show - he's far too dangerous in that situation.

Anyway in light of all this, the reason the Doctor chose to marry River in these circumstances actually makes a lot more sense.

Re: Part 2

[np-complete.livejournal.com]

I finally watched the finale last night and am going back over two weeks to read people's comments!

It occurs to me that in the children's song, reprised at the end, the penultimate line is "he gave all he could give her." I think that's likely significant. A marriage that happened in a time line about to undo itself; a marriage that may not actually be valid because (we are invited to infer) the groom is supposed to tell his name to the bride, which he doesn't actually do; a marriage to a being that may not even technically be a being, being a robot.

[earlgreytea68.livejournal.com]

"WTF IS REALITY, MOFF??????"

Hahahahaha! It's like being in philosophy class all over again!

[karenor.livejournal.com]

Yes, only with less pretension. Oh, wait.

;)